Interesting, thank you. I came into the Catholic Church over 30 years ago. All I knew was the NO Mass.
Deeply immersed on our Catholic culture through work, kids school and hubby's family, I had never heard of Traditional Latin Mass until about 6 years ago. And it was sweetness to all of my senses.. I felt present w the angels
I still dont know what it all means, Im kind of on a lone journey. I have been concerned about what I see happening..I am still learning and dont see from all sides, so taking in what I can and bringing it to God.
If my ship is having sone problems and my community is on board, I (hope I) wouldn't flee but help to rebuild.
Good luck! The ship is bigger and older that we imagine and leaking and creaking as it always has. I think the lesson is to avoid making idols of popes and bishops and liturgies and focus on Our Lord who has to endure our vanities and diversions.
Absolutely! With the TLM I can hear the angels sing! Much more deep. Some priests have tried to give us the TLM, but it is shut down. One passionate priest, Fr. Wylie from South Africa was pushed out, rhe story goes, bc someone didnt like it. That ought to tell us something!
With our NO, which I attend at least weekly, it definately feels like being in communion w my neighbors / community, and I am committed.
Prayers and good wishes. I don’t have much choice, it’s NO or nothing now (our nearest TLM has stopped when the regular priest moved and the new priest while not opposed, doesn’t ‘know’ the ropes). My fellow worshippers at the NO are the nicest kindest people to worship alongside, you just need to strain your ears that bit harder to hear the angels.
Thank you for this perspective. Being part Polish and growing up through JP’s era of the 1980s he was a bit of a superstar and made the Catholic Church almost cool and relevant again. Bear in mind that this came after the dreary and chaotic 1970s and a particularly grim time for Poland. We bought the hype and the optimism and JP was good at meeting the demand. Looking back with greater hindsight I would take this era back to Vatican 1 and the loss of the Papal States and therefore the need for celebrity popes to keep the show on the road. Sadly the times have moved on and the celebrities, like the pictures, have all got smaller.
Looking at Karol Wojtyla, who became the legendary JPII, through the lens of his heterodox teachings has left me with mixed feelings. He influenced my life tremendously, especially during World Youth Day 2000, in the year of the Jubilee. I know many others who found vocations to religious life and priesthood because of him. My own image of God, which for years had been deeply wounded by Protestant fundamentalism and an overbearing father, shifted completely when I witnessed how JPII showed such compassion, patience, and concern for an Italian Youth who rushed the stage at the opening ceremony of WYD 2000. JPII illustrated God's loving kindness so clearly that I could finally understand how good, patient, and loving, slow to anger, and full of gentleness and compassion, God the Father is.
However, as I have become more aware of JPII's heterodoxy and false ecumenism, I realize that canonized or not, I must pray for him. There is no way of knowing where he stood before God on his deathbed. I pray the Holy Spirit convicted him of his errors and that he made a complete and contrite confession before he died.
In retrospect, I can acknowledge that JPII epitomized the ecclesial superstar image. He was admired as a man's man, being an avid outdoor enthusiast. He was a poet, philosopher, playwright, and charismatic speaker. But the glamor surrounding him served to legitimize the notion that priests and prelates need to build a cult of admiration around themselves. It took the focus of Catholicism off of Jesus Christ and incentivized the aberrations and novelties that arose as priests attempted to become relevant to a modern audience.
It is so sad that such an influential person as JPII is becoming a hollow symbol that whoever desires can use to fill with their own agenda. It makes it difficult to sort out the wheat from the chaff. What of his contributions, his Wednesday audiences that came to be compiled into Theology of the Body? Where do they fall with regard to orthodox Catholic teaching? And his work, Love and Responsibility, which he wrote while still a cardinal- how do we discern what to keep and what to let go of? I acknowledge the errors of heterodoxy of which JPII is guilty. My question is: what is good that can be salvaged?
I don't have the answers to these questions. I don't believe I have the intellect nor the orthodox theological training to sort out these matters. I hope God will give the right individual both the wisdom and the authority to clarify what Catholics should retain from JPII's teachings. May he rest in peace, and may those who have been led astray or confused by his errors receive the grace to hold fast to what is true and reject anything that distorts the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Interesting, thank you. I came into the Catholic Church over 30 years ago. All I knew was the NO Mass.
Deeply immersed on our Catholic culture through work, kids school and hubby's family, I had never heard of Traditional Latin Mass until about 6 years ago. And it was sweetness to all of my senses.. I felt present w the angels
I still dont know what it all means, Im kind of on a lone journey. I have been concerned about what I see happening..I am still learning and dont see from all sides, so taking in what I can and bringing it to God.
If my ship is having sone problems and my community is on board, I (hope I) wouldn't flee but help to rebuild.
Good luck! The ship is bigger and older that we imagine and leaking and creaking as it always has. I think the lesson is to avoid making idols of popes and bishops and liturgies and focus on Our Lord who has to endure our vanities and diversions.
Absolutely! With the TLM I can hear the angels sing! Much more deep. Some priests have tried to give us the TLM, but it is shut down. One passionate priest, Fr. Wylie from South Africa was pushed out, rhe story goes, bc someone didnt like it. That ought to tell us something!
With our NO, which I attend at least weekly, it definately feels like being in communion w my neighbors / community, and I am committed.
Thank you, for teaching us!
Prayers and good wishes. I don’t have much choice, it’s NO or nothing now (our nearest TLM has stopped when the regular priest moved and the new priest while not opposed, doesn’t ‘know’ the ropes). My fellow worshippers at the NO are the nicest kindest people to worship alongside, you just need to strain your ears that bit harder to hear the angels.
Thank you for this perspective. Being part Polish and growing up through JP’s era of the 1980s he was a bit of a superstar and made the Catholic Church almost cool and relevant again. Bear in mind that this came after the dreary and chaotic 1970s and a particularly grim time for Poland. We bought the hype and the optimism and JP was good at meeting the demand. Looking back with greater hindsight I would take this era back to Vatican 1 and the loss of the Papal States and therefore the need for celebrity popes to keep the show on the road. Sadly the times have moved on and the celebrities, like the pictures, have all got smaller.
Looking at Karol Wojtyla, who became the legendary JPII, through the lens of his heterodox teachings has left me with mixed feelings. He influenced my life tremendously, especially during World Youth Day 2000, in the year of the Jubilee. I know many others who found vocations to religious life and priesthood because of him. My own image of God, which for years had been deeply wounded by Protestant fundamentalism and an overbearing father, shifted completely when I witnessed how JPII showed such compassion, patience, and concern for an Italian Youth who rushed the stage at the opening ceremony of WYD 2000. JPII illustrated God's loving kindness so clearly that I could finally understand how good, patient, and loving, slow to anger, and full of gentleness and compassion, God the Father is.
However, as I have become more aware of JPII's heterodoxy and false ecumenism, I realize that canonized or not, I must pray for him. There is no way of knowing where he stood before God on his deathbed. I pray the Holy Spirit convicted him of his errors and that he made a complete and contrite confession before he died.
In retrospect, I can acknowledge that JPII epitomized the ecclesial superstar image. He was admired as a man's man, being an avid outdoor enthusiast. He was a poet, philosopher, playwright, and charismatic speaker. But the glamor surrounding him served to legitimize the notion that priests and prelates need to build a cult of admiration around themselves. It took the focus of Catholicism off of Jesus Christ and incentivized the aberrations and novelties that arose as priests attempted to become relevant to a modern audience.
It is so sad that such an influential person as JPII is becoming a hollow symbol that whoever desires can use to fill with their own agenda. It makes it difficult to sort out the wheat from the chaff. What of his contributions, his Wednesday audiences that came to be compiled into Theology of the Body? Where do they fall with regard to orthodox Catholic teaching? And his work, Love and Responsibility, which he wrote while still a cardinal- how do we discern what to keep and what to let go of? I acknowledge the errors of heterodoxy of which JPII is guilty. My question is: what is good that can be salvaged?
I don't have the answers to these questions. I don't believe I have the intellect nor the orthodox theological training to sort out these matters. I hope God will give the right individual both the wisdom and the authority to clarify what Catholics should retain from JPII's teachings. May he rest in peace, and may those who have been led astray or confused by his errors receive the grace to hold fast to what is true and reject anything that distorts the teachings of Jesus Christ.